For those who fell at Arrakesh

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Alan Wells
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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Alan Wells » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:29 pm

Many people have beaten me to the punch, but here's my Stells worth.

2 Years ago I did my first Ritual and it was just after some Gryphons attempted a Ritual to do what you're suggesting and that was for 1 pattern, that resulted in a 2 hr long running battle with an unliving horde as pretty much what happens is you open a path to the planes of unlife and stuff just keeps coming until you can close it.

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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Aija » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:36 pm

Then what we need to do friday evening, is find out who of those who were left behind are actually on the Planes of Unlife, and who are "lost".

Although technically, if we are making the Rite to "light up" the lost patterns with our memories of them so their Ancestors can find them, then it's up to those Ancestors to get them once we've provided the power. If they can't get them, then we look into different things afterwards. There's no need to actually send anyone or anything to the Planes of Unlife, nor risk sounding the Bells.

And as a lay to rest only works until dawn the next day, whilst we are doing a variation on laying to rest, *we're* not sending the patterns to the Ancestors, we're getting them visible so the Ancestors can find them.

Ugh. Maybe treating this as if it were a ritual and writing a script people can read and comment on would work better. I just refuse to sit down and go "oh well, they're lost and we'll never get them back". Not in my nature I'm afraid.

And Karnak - we're not doing what the Gryphons did. I've already said that, many times...
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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Bitter » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:18 pm

Sheyna wrote: I just refuse to sit down and go "oh well, they're lost and we'll never get them back". Not in my nature I'm afraid.


No one is saying you should.

What they are saying is that maybe a plan that involves making demands of ancestors whose limitations and motivations are not known whilst casting spells that won't do what you want them to and tampering with an entire plane inimicable to life itself is, just possibly, not the greatest alternative on offer.

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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby ravenfire » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:20 pm

Sheyna wrote:Then what we need to do friday evening, is find out who of those who were left behind are actually on the Planes of Unlife, and who are "lost".


From my understanding; patterns do not leave this plane immediately, but rather at dawn. Therefore, the patterns of those that died on the island, whether they were wasted, corrupted, or died of 'standard' mortal wounds, will have been forgotten with the island rather than going to their natural or enforced plane. I would suspect they all therefore come under the heading of "lost". If that makes sense? Unless acts such as wasting and corruption of the body send the pattern to the planes of unlife instantly; but as a lay to rest can send a pattern to their ancestor even after they've been wasted, then I suspect not. I would recommend verifying this with someone else though.
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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Max » Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:36 pm

So this rite would specificaly be not sending thier pattern anywhere or even contacting them but rather pointing the Ancestors in thier direction with the help of Humact. Is that right or are people going to get carried away since there is no script and we will end up opening up a hole to the plain of unlife with your rite team in the middle?
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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Aija » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:58 pm

Everard, I promised I wouldn't put Tara in danger and I won't.

I am drafting several scripts, and have been offered help from the Bards Guild, plus I shall be talking with the Watchers and any Gazed I can find. The number of speakers is already limited, so the number needing to read any script is small.

If it turns out that there's no viable option, and I'll look into *everything* before admitting defeat, then we'll just have to have a bloody great big party to remember them. But I'm no-where near admitting defeat yet...
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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Alrisha » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:34 pm

I should have no problem finding out if a pattern is on Unlife if someone is willing to speak to Osiris, with me there too of course.

Beyond that I'll be available to discuss any of this beforehand. But in my opinion. The patterns wasted went there. Since no one laid them to rest they likely are still. If they were forgotten afterward thats a question for the gazed I suspect.
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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Aija » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:55 pm

Then on friday we'll find someone to talk to Osiris with you, and we can find out how many of the missing ended up on the Planes of Unlife. It's a good starting point...
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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Max » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:00 pm

I'm not talking about you deliberately putting anyone in danger, there are however a number of people many of whom can get a little exitable and enthusiastic. Never a good thing in rites and rituals as I understand it when doing them on the fly.
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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Alrisha » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:11 pm

The patterns on unlife if they are there are bound there now. To attempt to wrest them away is dangerous at best and I could have no part in it. What I hope to offer with Osiris' blesing is closure for those who need it.

We will honour those lost either way but no one should be endangered in doing this. Neither by attempting to rouse unlife or reminding Erdreja of that dammed isle.
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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Max » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:24 pm

True I assume knocking a route into the unliving plane might get Erdreja attention and cause speculation.
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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Zackari » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:36 pm

Alrisha wrote:The patterns on unlife if they are there are bound there now. To attempt to wrest them away is dangerous at best and I could have no part in it. What I hope to offer with Osiris' blesing is closure for those who need it.

We will honour those lost either way but no one should be endangered in doing this. Neither by attempting to rouse unlife or reminding Erdreja of that dammed isle.


Im with Alrisha on this one.

Also, i just need clarification on a term. The word "lost" is getting used, but that isn't correct is it? Surely "destroyed" might be a better one. If something is lost, then it can be found, and Erdreja will recognise its existence.

However, if something is destroyed, then it cant be found, and only our memorys of that person will remain. Isnt this how edyja sees this? It no longer recognises the patterns existence, like they were never of this world, and so, only our memorys of that pattern still exist.

Again, im no Erdreja studier person (I deal in logic and equations), but that's how logic dictates itself to me.

Sorry for being blunt...
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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Alrisha » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:47 pm

Perhaps forgotten rather than lost then?
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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Aija » Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:14 pm

This is one of the things I shall be determiniing on friday night, with assistance from many places.

To be fair, if they are on the Planes of Unlife, that's infinitely better than being eradicated.

I am using the term 'lost' as it covers all the different permutations you mention. Mislaid, adrift, destroyed, forgotten, all are covered.
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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Pebble Ar Gaed » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:26 pm

We fought. People died. So that Erdreja could forget.

I'm betting she needs to.

I really think that we should only look to call the ancestor's gaze to take those lost patterns and we should be careful of our wordings within those rites. For the sake of those lost souls -- else what did they die for? We remember them because she cannot. Their ancestors remember them, because she cannot.

It is disturbing to know there is something that you do not remember. Perhaps we should keep that also to a minimum. I don't know how rites work though. I do know that the focus is tied into Yr Draig, an ancestor of the dragons, and perhaps that can, in itself, be of assistance.

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