For those who fell at Arrakesh

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Zackari
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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Zackari » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:37 pm

I seem to be getting more and more involved in the finger waggling thing, and i dont mean to be. However, the Flaming Psycho Warmaster has a point.

Pebble Ar Gaed wrote:We fought. People died. So that Erdreja could forget.

I'm betting she needs to.....

...... We remember them because she cannot. Their ancestors remember them, because she cannot.


Erdreja has clearly wants to forget this and forcing her to remember it, can not bring any good. Or then forcing her to remember those we have lost instead, would logically in turn force her to remember why they were lost.

Something horrendous that happens to people early in their lives, will forget about it as a defence mechanism. I think forcing something to remember something like Arrekesh and the people we lost (sp?) will only bring misery, both to us and Edreja.

Also "lighting up" a living pattern in the planes of unlife? to me that's just a beacon of pain waiting to happen not only to that pattern, but to the person we are channeling though to light up these people. (I dont know how rites work thats my interpretation.)

While i hope nothing bad will happen, know this. Ill be watching and celebrating the lives of the people we lost, rather than mourning their death, all the while keeping my distance from the rite, swords close for any eventuality, listening for the bells.
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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Dicky » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:10 am

Those that fell died in service to the Guild, their Nations and to Erdreja. They should be remembered by all so that they know the cost of what they ask for.

That being said this is an adjusted lay to rest rite, not a ritual and not performed in a ritual circle, from my understanding this does not contain the sort of power needed to open a path to the plains of unlife. If that was possible, even a very small chance of it happening nearest the guilds would be best.
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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Pebble Ar Gaed » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:33 am

If they died so that Erdreja could forget, then they should be remembered by everyone...

...except for Erdreja.

Else what did they die for? I lead them and then I was yanked from battle with so many, too many, desperately fighting and I was unable to go back and save those people in what had become my warband. Many of whom were my boys. Literally. Three of the missing are Dragons: Daire Ó Draoi, Dragon Bard; Cathaoir of Namon, my Ard Caelleach, my second; and Barron ap Kappa, one of our greatest mages and fighters.

Everyone in that warband at that time was considered one of mine, and if I lost my boys so that Erdreja could forget, then there is *NO* sense in making -her- remember them. Their death, their loss, their unit's loss, their faction's loss -- is for naught. It defies their sacrifice. It undoes it. And then their deaths become pointless. I will not have that.

So. We remember. The ancestors remember. And if those patterns of those lost can be sent to where they need to go, then they go. But Erdreja needs to be kept away from this. Her memories told me so.
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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Dicky » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:24 pm

They died so Erdreja could forget something not the fact they died for her
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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby ravenfire » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:00 pm

Edward; by reminding her they died for her you're reminding her of what they were doing when they died and then you're reminding her of the island and then you're back with her remembering the island. Let the rite be about us remembering them and reminding their ancestors of them.


(edited for tone)
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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby dodgybren » Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:21 am

Lets just do it Erinish style and all get merry with a few drinks and talk about how they were jerks but we will miss them really.
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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby d511kx » Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:35 pm

the noble High Alchemist wrote:
Also "lighting up" a living pattern in the planes of unlife? to me that's just a beacon of pain waiting to happen not only to that pattern, but to the person we are channeling though to light up these people. (I dont know how rites work thats my interpretation.


The good Master Neverwinter makes one of the more sensible contributions here.

When you're in a ship at night, in the middle of the ocean, and you think that you're alone, never put up your running lights, unless you want every filthy vagabond, pirate and slaver for leagues around down on your stern. The same goes for patterns. Light them up, and, knowing how far luck usually runs on such occasions, far more than the entities that you want to take note will be setting their tillers and steering right at them.

A herd of swine are likely to be seen circling the turrets of Castle Darkendale, because I agree with Cousin Cade. If you want to remember the dead, and the missing, a wake is far less likely to result in bloody death, screaming and demands for rites to remember the victims of the rite to remember the victims.

Miles Darkendale

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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Aija » Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:29 pm

The problem I have with 'just' having wakes, is that we will all remember them regardless. We will honour them regardless. That won't help get their sparks back into a Cycle, *any* cycle, nor get *them* back with their Ancestors.

If their patterns are savable, they should be saved. If they are gone, completely, no chance of recovery then I shall be forced to accept that. If they are on the Planes of Unlife, then at least they aren't *gone*, and in 60-odd years we can try raise them and lay them to rest, or do whatever it takes then to fix it. If they are in Limbo somewhere, then we can bring them home.

Unless you've lived through having the pattern of one you love eradicated, it's hard to understand why I feel so strongly about this...
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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Bría » Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:04 pm

Sheyna,

I think you may be hoping to achieve the impossible with this rite. The time where we would be able to lay these people to rest is well and truely passed. Also, without their bodies, we cannot guaruntee the passage of their patterns. The best we can hope to achieve is to ask their ancestors to help their patterns find peace, or find their way home.

I don't want you going into this with unrealistic expectations. I will speak to Humact and ask him to intercede on behalf of the fallen. It is his role to help the patterns of the departed find their true place. However, the chance may have passed.

This rite will honour them, remember them. Whether it also helps them find their way home, well, I don't know, but we can try.

Tara.
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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Eric Lund » Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:19 pm

Couldn't you also just ask the Elysium, seeing as we are on good terms with "it" (for a lack of a better term) and bringing patterns to their final resting place. This way you could at least find out where the patterns are (if they even still exist) and would it be possible to do what you guys are planning without reminding Edreja and quite possibly sending her into a tantrum which may or may not end up killing even more people
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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Aija » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:27 pm

You know what, Tara, you are likely entirely right. And I am not entirely without prior bias in this matter. There is also likely a lot of survivors guilt at play here. I've been a mind healer long enough that I should have recognised this earlier.

For the purposes of keeping all involved safe and the rite within realistic boundaries, it may be worth someone else taking charge of organising it's goal and content...

Though that doesn't mean I won't be spending friday night finding out exactly what has happened to them, and what can be done: It just means I shall hand over all that information in its entirety to Tara so she can make whatever decision she sees fit.

I am sorry if my attitude here has in any way seemed offensive or overbearing.
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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Bría » Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:07 pm

I'm sorry Sheyna, but no.

When you first mentioned this plan I said I'd help. Nothing more. I didn't volunteer to lead the rite, you did that for me but I chose not to point out the fact. However, I draw the line at taking over the organisation of what is, quite frankly, a flawed experiment which at best will be ineffective, and at worst draw a lot of trouble.

You began this. Please do not try to palm it off because the flaws are becoming evident.

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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Zackari » Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:15 pm

d511kx wrote:
the noble acting high Alchemist wrote:


The good Master Neverwinter makes one of the more sensible contributions here.

Miles Darkendale


Never would I think that a darkendale could say such a thing about a Neverwinter. You can come more often, I like you.

Noble and good and sensible. Not something is normally atribute to myself, but thank you all the samw.

Ans I think that was a good call there handing the precedings over to Tara. That must have been a tough decision, but I'm glad you have.

Yours alchemicaly

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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Alrisha » Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:25 pm

I will find out if any patterns are on unlife. I will help any who wish to honour and remember the dead and I will give of my power to the ancestors they held faith in out of respect and as one of faith myself. But making Erdreja remember or lighting up unlife? No. We cannot attempt either action and to do so would frankly be an insult to their memories.

I should hope by now that the Lions know me well enough to know that final journey of the honoured dead and that they find their rest is of the upmost importance to me. And yes Sheyna I have lost friends in such ways that their patterns are just...gone. I hate it. I fear the very thought of it and even with that. I can only imagine your pain to be immesurably worse.

But Tara is correct. This is too much of a risk. Not just to us. But to them and to Erdreja.

We honour them. Their memories. Their stories. Their lives. Let that be their legacy.

In faith.
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Re: For those who fell at Arrakesh

Postby Aija » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:04 am

Tara, I am not 'palming it off'. I said I would do all the research involved, then let you decide what you would actually say to Humact based off that.

Given how I have been told what I originally wanted to do isn't viable, and every permutation I've suggested since has had responces varying from "it simply won't work" to "you'll kill everyone in a 30ft radius" to "the dragon will kill everyone there", I figured the focus of the power should get to decide what to say, not the biased bystander.

and if, based off all the research I get, you say "no", then that's that.
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